Matt Fradd Reveals What Made His Viral Moment So Emotional

Fans of Matt Fradd’s “Pints with Aquinas” podcast expect the show to mine the depths of the Catholic faith. But a stirring conversation with Boston College Professor of Philosophy Peter Kreeft brought Fradd to his knees.

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Fradd’s prompt seemed relatively benign, at first. “What advice do you have for someone watching this, who’s newly married or who is about to be?” 

Weaving an intricate path around predictable clichés, Kreeft offered a poignant meditation.

“Do you think that, when you are very old, and your wife is very old, and ugly, and wrinkled, and fat, and not very bright, or even nasty, that you will still find her beautiful? If so, marry her.” 

It was frank advice from an octogenarian who was married to his wife Maria Antoinette for 63 years before she died two weeks before the interview.

“The last view I had of my wife in the nursing home, about an hour after she died — I fell in love with her again. Here is a wasted, emaciated, wrinkled, suffering body,” Kreeft’s voice cracked. “It’s as beautiful as a crucifix.”

Watch Matt Fradd’s full interview with Dr. Peter Kreeft

Seven heavy seconds passed as Fradd nodded in understanding, his chin quivering and his brow elegizing his heart. He’s married with four children. His wife of nearly twenty years had recently been in the hospital to treat an autoimmune disease. With any luck, Kreeft’s scene won’t play out for Fradd’s family for a lifetime. 

“That body ain’t gonna last, but the soul is,” Kreeft continued. “So if you don’t love her soul, but just love her body, don’t get married.”

Fradd held vigil over the silence between musings. Whether it was due to the wisdom he’d gained, years into doing the show, or his familiarity with Kreeft, whom he’d chatted with before, the gravity was breathtaking. The moment went viral. 

Ben Shapiro called it, “The most meaningful clip I’ve ever seen on the internet.”

Others described it as “beautiful and profound,” “the advice everyone needs to hear right now,” and “unforgettable.” 

It’s impossible to watch without facing the profound heartbreak of being human. For anyone intentionally missing the point, one follower added, “If your reaction to this was anything even remotely negative, destroy your router. You are brainwashed by the internet.” 

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Fradd spoke with The Daily Wire about his conversation with Kreeft, describing him as one of the greatest minds of our time. 

“I believe that in 10 or 20 years, after his death, he will be mentioned in the same breath as Tolkien, Lewis, and Chesterton,” Fradd said. “He has been incredibly helpful to young Catholics trying to understand their faith, trying to understand how to defend their faith, trying to understand why their faith is reasonable. And he does so in a very winsome, sometimes cheeky kind of way. He’s genuinely a beautiful man.” 

Kreeft, 89, skipped a proposed pint of Yuengling to share a glass of Lagavulin 16 single malt Scotch with Fradd, both more than comfortable with a reflective interlude. “The first interview, I would not have been able to sit in silence, right?” Fradd admitted. “I would have ruined it completely.”

This time was different. “I was thinking of my beautiful wife … It was me just seeing this beautiful old man crying. There were tears there for sure, in the most manly, New England way. To speak after he shared those words felt irreverent. Almost like if we were to pray together, and as soon as we said ‘Amen,’ I was like, ‘Anyway, let’s go get something to eat.’”

Fradd noted the way in which Kreeft’s words cut through a culture that allows little room for growing old. 

“What he said was factually correct,” Fradd explained. “I feel like Hollywood is incapable of seeing the beauty of a marriage well-lived. If it tried, it would ruin it by pretending that when you get older, you’re just as beautiful as you were when you were 20. What made what he said so powerful for people is he began with some hard truths. You’re both going to get uglier and fatter and stupider. That’s what happens.”

“And then, of course, the line about the crucifix was so beautiful because Christ says, ‘This is my body given up for you.’ The crucifix is a symbol of love spent on behalf of others. To see his emaciated wife like that is to see her body, what she gave of herself for him and their children and their life … Suffering will teach you in a way that words won’t.”

Fradd humbly recalled an earlier review of his podcast from Kreeft, who confirmed, “Matt Fradd is the best interviewer I have ever seen or heard … he makes you forget you are being interviewed. It feels like nobody is there but him and you.” 

The third, most apparent element is the spiritual realm, which quickens Fradd and anyone with whom he shares this inner sanctum.

“What a beautiful honor to be able to release something beautiful into the sewer of Twitter,” Fradd says with a smile. “We’re all freaking out and angry about everything, and this zoomed us all out and helped us to see something.”

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